1 00:00:06,410 --> 00:00:04,160 reading citizens I'm Jason McClellan 2 00:00:08,660 --> 00:00:06,420 and today's episode of unknown is a 3 00:00:11,390 --> 00:00:08,670 special episode that was recorded live 4 00:00:14,930 --> 00:00:11,400 on stage at alien Con Los Angeles on 5 00:00:17,540 --> 00:00:14,940 Sunday June 23rd the rest of the unknown 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:17,550 team was there Maureen Elsberry Ryan 7 00:00:22,370 --> 00:00:20,010 Sprague and Shane herb and for this 8 00:00:24,500 --> 00:00:22,380 episode we discussed the stigma that 9 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:24,510 still surrounds the UFO topic 10 00:00:29,750 --> 00:00:27,330 it's always fun recording episodes live 11 00:00:31,910 --> 00:00:29,760 in front of an audience we certainly had 12 00:00:35,299 --> 00:00:31,920 fun with this episode and we hope you 13 00:00:36,950 --> 00:00:35,309 enjoy it greeting citizens and welcome 14 00:00:58,890 --> 00:00:36,960 to unknown 15 00:01:01,290 --> 00:00:58,900 [Music] 16 00:01:03,630 --> 00:01:01,300 I'm Jason McClellan I'm here with Ryan 17 00:01:06,210 --> 00:01:03,640 Sprague Maureen Elsberry and Shane herd 18 00:01:09,330 --> 00:01:06,220 and today we're recording live from 19 00:01:11,700 --> 00:01:09,340 alien con la and we love doing these 20 00:01:13,290 --> 00:01:11,710 live recordings not only because we're 21 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:13,300 all together in the same place which 22 00:01:17,550 --> 00:01:15,490 doesn't always happen but also because 23 00:01:19,980 --> 00:01:17,560 we have the wonderful privilege of 24 00:01:21,300 --> 00:01:19,990 having a live audience today thank you 25 00:01:26,130 --> 00:01:21,310 guys so much for being here how's it 26 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:26,140 going I like loved having you guys here 27 00:01:29,340 --> 00:01:27,910 and we hope to incorporate you into the 28 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:29,350 show today thank you so much for being 29 00:01:33,270 --> 00:01:31,810 here so today we're going to spend most 30 00:01:35,730 --> 00:01:33,280 of our time together talking about 31 00:01:37,830 --> 00:01:35,740 what's known as the giggle factor or the 32 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:37,840 ridicule factor attached with the topic 33 00:01:45,420 --> 00:01:41,650 of UFOs the subject of UFOs the very 34 00:01:47,180 --> 00:01:45,430 word itself is stigmatized UFOs have 35 00:01:49,740 --> 00:01:47,190 been in pop culture for a long time 36 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:49,750 everybody loves seeing UFOs in movies 37 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:52,050 and on TV but what we're talking about 38 00:01:58,200 --> 00:01:56,170 today is UFOs in the real world when 39 00:02:00,900 --> 00:01:58,210 someone claims to have seen the UFO 40 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:00,910 it hasn't been uncommon for claims of 41 00:02:06,810 --> 00:02:03,010 UFO sightings to be met with smirks 42 00:02:09,300 --> 00:02:06,820 giggles and outright ridicule because of 43 00:02:11,190 --> 00:02:09,310 this ridicule factor many people refrain 44 00:02:14,580 --> 00:02:11,200 from sharing personal experiences or 45 00:02:17,250 --> 00:02:14,590 even attempting to discuss the topic of 46 00:02:19,530 --> 00:02:17,260 UFOs in public so I want to give you an 47 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:19,540 example to start off here so I was 48 00:02:23,820 --> 00:02:21,370 recently interviewing a college 49 00:02:26,850 --> 00:02:23,830 professor at one of the largest public 50 00:02:29,460 --> 00:02:26,860 universities in the country the topic of 51 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:29,470 the interview wasn't related to UFOs at 52 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:32,290 all it was completely unrelated and it 53 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:34,510 was probably something about academics I 54 00:02:38,940 --> 00:02:37,090 don't remember exactly but this 55 00:02:41,670 --> 00:02:38,950 gentleman was in my office and he 56 00:02:44,100 --> 00:02:41,680 happened to see a copy of a book on my 57 00:02:46,530 --> 00:02:44,110 desk and it was a book that I'd written 58 00:02:48,710 --> 00:02:46,540 recently called only weirdos see UFOs he 59 00:02:51,750 --> 00:02:48,720 saw this book sitting on my desk and 60 00:02:54,140 --> 00:02:51,760 that's what prompted what I'll play for 61 00:02:58,089 --> 00:02:54,150 you now 62 00:03:00,800 --> 00:02:58,099 I saw a flying craft one time yeah yes 63 00:03:03,050 --> 00:03:00,810 it was in the winter in December in 64 00:03:06,199 --> 00:03:03,060 Tennessee and it had been spotted 65 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:06,209 several times about other people usually 66 00:03:10,610 --> 00:03:08,730 in the in the night and because it was 67 00:03:11,869 --> 00:03:10,620 in December it was very clear you know 68 00:03:14,119 --> 00:03:11,879 and not a lot of humidity anything like 69 00:03:16,940 --> 00:03:14,129 that so you could see for a long way and 70 00:03:19,460 --> 00:03:16,950 I talked to several people who had seen 71 00:03:21,710 --> 00:03:19,470 it or knew someone who had and most of 72 00:03:24,740 --> 00:03:21,720 the sightings were in and around the 73 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:24,750 freeway and I was coming back from 74 00:03:31,580 --> 00:03:28,410 Nashville late at night and I looked 75 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:31,590 over and said holy you know it was 76 00:03:38,930 --> 00:03:35,130 a huge vessel that was a layer cake kind 77 00:03:40,699 --> 00:03:38,940 of thing you know soon yeah didn't a lot 78 00:03:42,910 --> 00:03:40,709 of red orange with what appeared to be 79 00:03:48,170 --> 00:03:42,920 windows and there was a rotation to it 80 00:03:50,509 --> 00:03:48,180 and it was amazing and the person in the 81 00:03:51,979 --> 00:03:50,519 car I said you know look at that and we 82 00:03:54,740 --> 00:03:51,989 were just stunned I said we got to get a 83 00:03:57,949 --> 00:03:54,750 picture of this and she reached in the 84 00:04:00,530 --> 00:03:57,959 back seat and screamed and the reason is 85 00:04:04,370 --> 00:04:00,540 there was some kind of vehicle literally 86 00:04:06,259 --> 00:04:04,380 I was doing 65 right on our bumper and 87 00:04:08,780 --> 00:04:06,269 it had very funny configuration of 88 00:04:11,059 --> 00:04:08,790 lighting it wasn't like two headlights 89 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:11,069 it was very different from that and I 90 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:13,530 just thought and I just floorboard 91 00:04:19,250 --> 00:04:16,410 head and instantly whatever was behind 92 00:04:21,770 --> 00:04:19,260 us was going Wow then my car wasn't that 93 00:04:24,230 --> 00:04:21,780 fast and it was very amazing I've never 94 00:04:26,270 --> 00:04:24,240 forgotten I was in Tennessee last week 95 00:04:27,710 --> 00:04:26,280 and I was making that ride it's in the 96 00:04:34,570 --> 00:04:27,720 daytime and I thought about this this is 97 00:04:43,550 --> 00:04:41,089 1970 so there was a huge the mothership 98 00:04:45,409 --> 00:04:43,560 and then what I viewed as a scout ship 99 00:04:49,610 --> 00:04:45,419 it was literally right behind us 100 00:04:51,260 --> 00:04:49,620 you know and and literally I have no 101 00:04:52,879 --> 00:04:51,270 idea because it was dark and I and I was 102 00:04:54,529 --> 00:04:52,889 and it was so close I couldn't see well 103 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:54,539 mainly all I could see was the lights 104 00:04:58,100 --> 00:04:56,490 and again the lights were kind of funky 105 00:05:00,600 --> 00:04:58,110 configuration they weren't like this 106 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:00,610 they were more like like 107 00:05:05,820 --> 00:05:03,730 you know and a triangular kind of thing 108 00:05:07,740 --> 00:05:05,830 but what was amazing was the big the big 109 00:05:10,710 --> 00:05:07,750 vessel it was gigantic you know it's 110 00:05:13,170 --> 00:05:10,720 really big I'd say it was maybe five 111 00:05:15,650 --> 00:05:13,180 hundred yards from the freeway because 112 00:05:18,510 --> 00:05:15,660 it was in December there was no foliage 113 00:05:19,650 --> 00:05:18,520 it clear night you know stars in the sky 114 00:05:22,050 --> 00:05:19,660 and all that and so it was just 115 00:05:24,570 --> 00:05:22,060 outrageous and again lots of people had 116 00:05:29,070 --> 00:05:24,580 seen it over that month who knows what 117 00:05:30,510 --> 00:05:29,080 it was yes yes because I know that some 118 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:30,520 of the people who saw it saw it at least 119 00:05:36,390 --> 00:05:33,970 a week before I did you know and I 120 00:05:37,950 --> 00:05:36,400 didn't see that big object fly it was 121 00:05:40,770 --> 00:05:37,960 hovering okay and you know it could have 122 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:40,780 been some kind of weird secret NASA 123 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:42,370 thing that we never heard about I mean I 124 00:05:45,870 --> 00:05:44,170 don't know what it was you know but it 125 00:05:50,850 --> 00:05:45,880 certainly wasn't like any craft I ever 126 00:05:52,650 --> 00:05:50,860 saw you know and so as far as sightings 127 00:05:55,470 --> 00:05:52,660 go this is a pretty incredible UFO 128 00:05:57,860 --> 00:05:55,480 encounter and told by a respected 129 00:06:01,020 --> 00:05:57,870 college professor at a major university 130 00:06:03,650 --> 00:06:01,030 but he told me that he hadn't ever 131 00:06:06,690 --> 00:06:03,660 shared this story with anyone before and 132 00:06:08,430 --> 00:06:06,700 when I asked him for permission to use 133 00:06:12,420 --> 00:06:08,440 the recording of his story for this 134 00:06:14,990 --> 00:06:12,430 podcast he obliged but only under the 135 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:15,000 condition that I not reveal his identity 136 00:06:22,350 --> 00:06:19,570 because he although now he is a 137 00:06:24,510 --> 00:06:22,360 professor emeritus he's retired he's 138 00:06:27,570 --> 00:06:24,520 still worried about the sort of backlash 139 00:06:30,210 --> 00:06:27,580 that he would face if it at least as far 140 00:06:32,490 --> 00:06:30,220 as he perceives that he would have to 141 00:06:34,710 --> 00:06:32,500 deal with if people knew that he was 142 00:06:37,350 --> 00:06:34,720 talking about having a UFO experience 143 00:06:39,210 --> 00:06:37,360 and this is something we've all seen a 144 00:06:41,940 --> 00:06:39,220 lot over the years during our time in 145 00:06:45,420 --> 00:06:41,950 the UFO field and Ryan you've spoken to 146 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:45,430 several people about UFO encounters and 147 00:06:50,370 --> 00:06:46,810 that's what your book somewhere in the 148 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:50,380 skies focuses on so how difficult was it 149 00:06:56,370 --> 00:06:52,930 for you to get those witnesses to agree 150 00:06:58,770 --> 00:06:56,380 to have their identities published yeah 151 00:07:00,840 --> 00:06:58,780 so when I first decided to write this 152 00:07:03,420 --> 00:07:00,850 book I knew I wanted to focus on the 153 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:03,430 individuals having the experience so I 154 00:07:08,340 --> 00:07:06,610 was upfront I told many people if you 155 00:07:11,070 --> 00:07:08,350 want to be in the book you have to use 156 00:07:12,490 --> 00:07:11,080 your real name I want I want people to 157 00:07:14,410 --> 00:07:12,500 know that 158 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:14,420 everyday people are having these 159 00:07:19,990 --> 00:07:17,570 experiences and that they embrace it and 160 00:07:22,270 --> 00:07:20,000 that it's a part of their life so I told 161 00:07:23,410 --> 00:07:22,280 them flat out like if you're gonna be in 162 00:07:25,510 --> 00:07:23,420 the book you gotta use your real name 163 00:07:27,190 --> 00:07:25,520 and at first 164 00:07:30,010 --> 00:07:27,200 everyone's like totally it's fine it's 165 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:30,020 totally fine same with my podcast if 166 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:31,450 people come on to talk about their 167 00:07:36,780 --> 00:07:33,890 experiences or tell their stories like I 168 00:07:39,790 --> 00:07:36,790 would love to do it yeah I remember 169 00:07:42,340 --> 00:07:39,800 about a week or so before the 170 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:42,350 publication of the book I had one person 171 00:07:48,180 --> 00:07:46,250 come to me and say I don't I don't want 172 00:07:50,290 --> 00:07:48,190 my name in there and I told them it 173 00:07:52,030 --> 00:07:50,300 there's nothing I can really do at this 174 00:07:56,050 --> 00:07:52,040 point he's already off to the publisher 175 00:07:58,810 --> 00:07:56,060 and all this and the woman got really 176 00:08:01,270 --> 00:07:58,820 upset and nervous and she said I I 177 00:08:04,030 --> 00:08:01,280 regret doing this I don't want like all 178 00:08:05,020 --> 00:08:04,040 my co-workers to start making fun of me 179 00:08:06,850 --> 00:08:05,030 like it 180 00:08:09,070 --> 00:08:06,860 it seemed okay at the time but now I'm 181 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:09,080 like really worried I didn't know what 182 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:11,770 to do it's too late it's to that 183 00:08:19,780 --> 00:08:14,330 unfortunately it had to go to almost 184 00:08:22,300 --> 00:08:19,790 legal blows and I had to take her story 185 00:08:24,550 --> 00:08:22,310 out of the book so that happened with 186 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:24,560 the podcast - someone came forward told 187 00:08:28,270 --> 00:08:26,450 their story the episode had already been 188 00:08:31,090 --> 00:08:28,280 out there for like a month at that point 189 00:08:33,820 --> 00:08:31,100 but someone came to me and said please 190 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:33,830 take it down please take it down so it's 191 00:08:38,860 --> 00:08:37,250 not easy it can't be easy getting once 192 00:08:40,870 --> 00:08:38,870 it's out there it's out there your 193 00:08:43,900 --> 00:08:40,880 family's gonna know about it your if you 194 00:08:45,820 --> 00:08:43,910 have children like their kids friends 195 00:08:49,030 --> 00:08:45,830 are gonna know about it your co-workers 196 00:08:51,310 --> 00:08:49,040 so I commend anyone who can come forward 197 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:51,320 with their name and report it but yeah 198 00:08:56,910 --> 00:08:54,170 yeah I do too and we've all worked in 199 00:08:59,500 --> 00:08:56,920 the UFO field for so long now that we're 200 00:09:02,320 --> 00:08:59,510 comfortable talking about UFOs as we are 201 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:02,330 any other subject but Maureen can you 202 00:09:07,410 --> 00:09:04,250 remember when you first got 203 00:09:09,730 --> 00:09:07,420 professionally involved in the UFO field 204 00:09:12,010 --> 00:09:09,740 how did people respond when they would 205 00:09:14,050 --> 00:09:12,020 find out that that's what you did that 206 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:14,060 oh yeah you made your living that was 207 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:17,450 fun so I did have a lot of reactions 208 00:09:23,660 --> 00:09:20,570 from people I used my mom as an example 209 00:09:25,610 --> 00:09:23,670 I love my mom to death she's 210 00:09:26,690 --> 00:09:25,620 I hearted and fun but when she heard I 211 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:26,700 was doing this she could not stop 212 00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:28,890 laughing she thought it was so funny so 213 00:09:32,030 --> 00:09:30,510 anytime she would say what does your 214 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:32,040 daughter do though she's a UFO 215 00:09:37,910 --> 00:09:34,530 journalist she would giggle when she 216 00:09:41,510 --> 00:09:37,920 said it but now you know it's been a 217 00:09:43,550 --> 00:09:41,520 decade later she's she's very I think 218 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:43,560 that the ridicule factor in her own mind 219 00:09:47,900 --> 00:09:46,170 has gone down so now she is like oh yeah 220 00:09:50,390 --> 00:09:47,910 she does the school stuff she was on TV 221 00:09:52,790 --> 00:09:50,400 she did this you know she she researches 222 00:09:56,420 --> 00:09:52,800 the unknown and and that's great you can 223 00:09:58,880 --> 00:09:56,430 see the evolution there which is is not 224 00:10:01,700 --> 00:09:58,890 normal but but again I had that 225 00:10:03,410 --> 00:10:01,710 experience where when I first got 226 00:10:07,190 --> 00:10:03,420 involved I was I think I was in my early 227 00:10:09,530 --> 00:10:07,200 or mid 20s early 20s probably and so I 228 00:10:11,270 --> 00:10:09,540 was hanging out at the bars a lot and my 229 00:10:13,460 --> 00:10:11,280 friends would always anytime we met 230 00:10:15,350 --> 00:10:13,470 people or they would introduce me to 231 00:10:18,500 --> 00:10:15,360 someone I didn't know would say tell me 232 00:10:21,470 --> 00:10:18,510 what you do so then I go into oh I'm a 233 00:10:24,830 --> 00:10:21,480 UFO journalist and researcher and they'd 234 00:10:26,510 --> 00:10:24,840 be like what and some reactions for sure 235 00:10:28,550 --> 00:10:26,520 they were like well that's really weird 236 00:10:32,420 --> 00:10:28,560 but kind of cool 237 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:32,430 sure and then the most often reaction I 238 00:10:36,770 --> 00:10:34,890 would have though is I've seen the UFO 239 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:36,780 can I please tell you my story right 240 00:10:41,180 --> 00:10:39,810 which is amazing so I have been able to 241 00:10:44,930 --> 00:10:41,190 hear so many stories I would not 242 00:10:48,020 --> 00:10:44,940 normally hear and it really gave me an 243 00:10:49,910 --> 00:10:48,030 idea of how big this phenomena is that 244 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:49,920 people are seeing this often and it was 245 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:53,370 totally these are credible people that I 246 00:10:59,450 --> 00:10:57,330 know even friends and associates that 247 00:11:02,600 --> 00:10:59,460 have these really amazing stories and 248 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:02,610 they I never they come out and say like 249 00:11:07,130 --> 00:11:04,530 you said like I've never told anybody 250 00:11:10,090 --> 00:11:07,140 this but they know they can tell me 251 00:11:13,390 --> 00:11:10,100 because well I'm already off on that far 252 00:11:16,090 --> 00:11:13,400 far field of the UFO phenomena so 253 00:11:19,220 --> 00:11:16,100 finally a safe space to say this story 254 00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:19,230 and that's sad because some of these 255 00:11:23,390 --> 00:11:21,600 stories were so remarkable like why 256 00:11:25,130 --> 00:11:23,400 didn't why don't you publish this why or 257 00:11:27,350 --> 00:11:25,140 why haven't you talked about this people 258 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:27,360 should know it'd be great for the 259 00:11:32,210 --> 00:11:29,970 research and phenomena as a whole to 260 00:11:34,730 --> 00:11:32,220 know all the details of this stuff 261 00:11:37,970 --> 00:11:34,740 so yeah it's it's it's really amazing to 262 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:37,980 see how how much people hold inside 263 00:11:41,660 --> 00:11:39,450 over all the years because they're 264 00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:41,670 afraid to say it and it shouldn't be 265 00:11:47,150 --> 00:11:44,310 that way at all and Shana I'd love to 266 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:47,160 hear the reactions you get because you 267 00:11:52,340 --> 00:11:50,130 are somebody who is in the scientific 268 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:52,350 world you are in local government world 269 00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:55,770 so you know those reactions have to be 270 00:11:59,090 --> 00:11:57,600 pretty interesting when people find out 271 00:12:02,390 --> 00:11:59,100 that you're all so wrapped up with UFOs 272 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:02,400 yeah it's very reticent and even letting 273 00:12:07,790 --> 00:12:05,010 anyone know for a couple of years I I've 274 00:12:09,860 --> 00:12:07,800 been a MUFON investigator for about 275 00:12:12,260 --> 00:12:09,870 three years but and it breathed a word 276 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:12,270 of it again it's a very professional 277 00:12:17,540 --> 00:12:14,370 environment ever you have everybody 278 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:17,550 there's PhDs and master's degrees and 279 00:12:21,260 --> 00:12:19,410 it's you know it's engineering and it's 280 00:12:23,690 --> 00:12:21,270 information technology and you know 281 00:12:26,330 --> 00:12:23,700 these if you know an engineer the way 282 00:12:30,260 --> 00:12:26,340 they think is very you know in a box 283 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:30,270 kind of a thing and so this very out of 284 00:12:36,050 --> 00:12:33,450 the box kind of thing that I'm involved 285 00:12:39,620 --> 00:12:36,060 with would just not fly well so I kept 286 00:12:42,020 --> 00:12:39,630 it pretty secret but then in time sorta 287 00:12:44,510 --> 00:12:42,030 opportunities came leave a book on my 288 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:44,520 desk people asked about it and I was 289 00:12:48,740 --> 00:12:46,530 surprised to find kind of like Marines 290 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:48,750 experience people oh really you're into 291 00:12:52,700 --> 00:12:50,850 that well can I tell you about that when 292 00:12:54,890 --> 00:12:52,710 this happened to me or this what I saw 293 00:12:57,680 --> 00:12:54,900 and oh that's really kind of cool so 294 00:13:00,590 --> 00:12:57,690 it's really kind of an once you break 295 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:00,600 the ice of it then you know it's amazing 296 00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:02,310 some of the information you get from 297 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:04,800 people but yeah that what that ridicule 298 00:13:10,910 --> 00:13:08,010 factor is is strong and powerful it 299 00:13:12,170 --> 00:13:10,920 really is and I love hearing this this 300 00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:12,180 common thing and I knew we had this 301 00:13:16,100 --> 00:13:13,920 between us but isn't that it's so 302 00:13:17,870 --> 00:13:16,110 fascinating to me how that door just 303 00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:17,880 opens right and I'm sure you've 304 00:13:21,770 --> 00:13:19,200 experienced this too right and right 305 00:13:25,370 --> 00:13:21,780 where you know you tell people what you 306 00:13:27,140 --> 00:13:25,380 do there's that still that giggle factor 307 00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:27,150 or there's the little left when they 308 00:13:31,070 --> 00:13:28,800 find out that you're serious about it 309 00:13:33,170 --> 00:13:31,080 then they do they oh I've seen it you 310 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:33,180 have followers or my uncle's seen a UFO 311 00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:35,250 and the stories come out yeah I mean I 312 00:13:40,340 --> 00:13:38,310 have an extremely understanding and 313 00:13:43,220 --> 00:13:40,350 the loving significant other who 314 00:13:45,170 --> 00:13:43,230 supports what I do but I lost so many 315 00:13:48,350 --> 00:13:45,180 second dates bringing up that hunt like 316 00:13:50,569 --> 00:13:48,360 a UFO researcher but at the same time 317 00:13:54,019 --> 00:13:50,579 when I'm at that bar or I'm out and 318 00:13:56,329 --> 00:13:54,029 people find out what I do there's 319 00:13:58,309 --> 00:13:56,339 definitely a little you know ridicule 320 00:14:00,319 --> 00:13:58,319 and the little side I glanced but then 321 00:14:01,670 --> 00:14:00,329 later in the night they'll come up to 322 00:14:03,889 --> 00:14:01,680 you when you're in line at the bathroom 323 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:03,899 and be like I have a story to share with 324 00:14:09,290 --> 00:14:07,050 you so everyone has some sort of story 325 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:09,300 to tell whether it's paranormal or UFOs 326 00:14:13,579 --> 00:14:11,610 or just something that they can't 327 00:14:16,369 --> 00:14:13,589 explain and they're just looking for 328 00:14:18,410 --> 00:14:16,379 someone not to necessarily answer it for 329 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:18,420 them but just to listen to listen to 330 00:14:23,030 --> 00:14:20,490 listen and see how they react and like 331 00:14:25,549 --> 00:14:23,040 sort of gauge the room of like is this 332 00:14:27,619 --> 00:14:25,559 okay to talk about and I see that 333 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:27,629 changing but it's it's never gonna go 334 00:14:31,460 --> 00:14:29,730 away right yeah we'll talk about the 335 00:14:33,499 --> 00:14:31,470 change a little bit later but back in 336 00:14:35,389 --> 00:14:33,509 april the washington post and countless 337 00:14:38,210 --> 00:14:35,399 other media outlets ran stories about 338 00:14:40,549 --> 00:14:38,220 how the Navy specifically was reworking 339 00:14:43,699 --> 00:14:40,559 their UFO reporting procedures and at 340 00:14:45,470 --> 00:14:43,709 one point these stories made or one 341 00:14:48,199 --> 00:14:45,480 point that the stories are making is 342 00:14:51,679 --> 00:14:48,209 that the Navy specifically is trying to 343 00:14:52,900 --> 00:14:51,689 distinguish UFOs in the hopes that their 344 00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:52,910 personnel will feel more comfortable 345 00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:55,920 reporting UFO sightings and this is a 346 00:15:00,290 --> 00:14:58,170 central theme in the History Channel's 347 00:15:02,660 --> 00:15:00,300 news show unidentified right I mean the 348 00:15:06,110 --> 00:15:02,670 focus on reducing the stigma surrounding 349 00:15:07,449 --> 00:15:06,120 the topic and what do you guys think I 350 00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:07,459 mean I think personally that's 351 00:15:14,689 --> 00:15:11,279 incredibly important because we know we 352 00:15:16,369 --> 00:15:14,699 know for a fact that not just the Navy 353 00:15:19,389 --> 00:15:16,379 but military and general military 354 00:15:22,369 --> 00:15:19,399 personnel encounter UFOs all the time 355 00:15:24,350 --> 00:15:22,379 yeah but I mean this is interesting 356 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:24,360 though because we know this is existed 357 00:15:30,410 --> 00:15:28,050 for a long time we Jason and I where we 358 00:15:32,749 --> 00:15:30,420 used to work open minds we had this 359 00:15:35,239 --> 00:15:32,759 treasure trove of old materials of 360 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:35,249 manuals and all sorts of stuff and I I'm 361 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:37,290 gonna be honest I don't remember if it 362 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:40,050 was the army the Navy the fire 363 00:15:44,449 --> 00:15:41,610 department or what it was but it was 364 00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:44,459 official ways for people to report you 365 00:15:47,900 --> 00:15:44,910 of 366 00:15:52,370 --> 00:15:47,910 and it was in the manuals already you 367 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:52,380 know in the 40s so this is good that 368 00:16:00,019 --> 00:15:56,730 we're really seeing it's super important 369 00:16:02,150 --> 00:16:00,029 and especially because the whole idea is 370 00:16:05,389 --> 00:16:02,160 it's a UFO or if you want to use the 371 00:16:08,449 --> 00:16:05,399 term UAP it's unknown we're not saying 372 00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:08,459 that these are all Exeter Estoril 373 00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:10,110 spacecraft coming down to abduct people 374 00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:13,110 it's these are mysterious objects that 375 00:16:17,930 --> 00:16:14,880 we cannot explain in our skies right now 376 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:17,940 and again like we always talk about it's 377 00:16:23,389 --> 00:16:20,610 how can something we don't know what it 378 00:16:26,210 --> 00:16:23,399 is flying around in our airspace and or 379 00:16:28,819 --> 00:16:26,220 diving in underwater how can that not 380 00:16:33,199 --> 00:16:28,829 possibly be a threat if we do not know 381 00:16:36,139 --> 00:16:33,209 if it is hostile or benign basically so 382 00:16:38,540 --> 00:16:36,149 I think that drafting these procedures 383 00:16:40,460 --> 00:16:38,550 is extremely important and it's a good 384 00:16:42,980 --> 00:16:40,470 thing it's happening again it's not the 385 00:16:45,170 --> 00:16:42,990 first time it's happened but yeah I 386 00:16:49,730 --> 00:16:45,180 think we're headed in the right 387 00:16:51,740 --> 00:16:49,740 direction slowly and hopefully we start 388 00:16:54,679 --> 00:16:51,750 to see that being taken more seriously I 389 00:16:58,040 --> 00:16:54,689 was thinking too that when it comes to 390 00:17:00,259 --> 00:16:58,050 the ridicule factor the source the 391 00:17:02,780 --> 00:17:00,269 original source of the ridicule factor 392 00:17:06,049 --> 00:17:02,790 is the military they made a concerted 393 00:17:07,130 --> 00:17:06,059 effort long ago that this is how we're 394 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:07,140 going to handle this we're going to 395 00:17:13,159 --> 00:17:10,530 poopoo it by ridiculing people so the 396 00:17:15,470 --> 00:17:13,169 Navy coming out now and sort of taking 397 00:17:18,559 --> 00:17:15,480 away that that stigma a little bit I 398 00:17:20,659 --> 00:17:18,569 think will go a long way to reducing 399 00:17:22,429 --> 00:17:20,669 that stigma because they're the ones 400 00:17:25,090 --> 00:17:22,439 that started it basically nothing Navy 401 00:17:28,730 --> 00:17:25,100 specifically but but the government so 402 00:17:31,730 --> 00:17:28,740 once leadership in our country starts 403 00:17:34,460 --> 00:17:31,740 you know allowing this to be treated in 404 00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:34,470 a serious way then hopefully it will 405 00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:36,480 release it but it will take time because 406 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:38,880 that people are scared scared for their 407 00:17:43,549 --> 00:17:41,370 jobs scared for their family 408 00:17:46,039 --> 00:17:43,559 relationships for their religion all 409 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:46,049 those sorts of things so I think it will 410 00:17:49,970 --> 00:17:48,090 be a powerful tool if it allows to 411 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:49,980 continue to help reduce that ridicule 412 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:51,910 yeah I mean I haven't heard any 413 00:17:56,670 --> 00:17:54,850 cases of wild swamp gas lately that's 414 00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:56,680 true but I am glad Shane that you 415 00:18:00,180 --> 00:17:58,240 brought up the origin and that that is 416 00:18:02,910 --> 00:18:00,190 true when I do just want to point out 417 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:02,920 that what he's talking about we hear a 418 00:18:06,810 --> 00:18:05,050 lot about you know the evil government 419 00:18:08,790 --> 00:18:06,820 or the government being the bad guys 420 00:18:10,890 --> 00:18:08,800 with when it comes to UFOs because of 421 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:10,900 the the government cover-up with all of 422 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:15,130 this and that all isn't conspiracy or 423 00:18:18,210 --> 00:18:17,770 conspiracy theory we we know that for a 424 00:18:21,210 --> 00:18:18,220 fact 425 00:18:22,770 --> 00:18:21,220 and specifically with ridicule we know 426 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:22,780 that for a fact - that was an 427 00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:25,570 established official policy of the US 428 00:18:30,330 --> 00:18:27,790 government to ridicule the topic of UFOs 429 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:30,340 to make people who reported UFOs seem 430 00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:33,370 like silly weirdos to make the topic 431 00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:35,280 itself seem like a whole bunch of 432 00:18:41,430 --> 00:18:39,310 silliness and the mandate also included 433 00:18:43,740 --> 00:18:41,440 using popular culture things like radio 434 00:18:46,890 --> 00:18:43,750 things like movies things like TV to 435 00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:46,900 push this message that yeah UFOs are fun 436 00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:49,510 silly sci-fi but that's it and anybody 437 00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:51,520 who believes UFOs are real or nuts 438 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:54,370 so that was an established policy so you 439 00:18:56,820 --> 00:18:56,170 can you can read all about that is 440 00:19:00,600 --> 00:18:56,830 public record 441 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:00,610 yeah the CIA specifically sought out the 442 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:03,250 biggest newspapers in the country and 443 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:05,770 told them to make fun of this if any one 444 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:07,330 reports it it gets into the local 445 00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:09,250 newspaper do whatever you can to 446 00:19:15,060 --> 00:19:12,160 downplay it and make the people seeing 447 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:15,070 these things laughable or crazy or 448 00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:17,290 hysterical and that even goes into 449 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:19,510 Bluebook right and it's not just the US 450 00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:21,250 government to either the UK government 451 00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:23,110 had an official policy with their UFO 452 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:26,320 program - and you know Nick Pope's been 453 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:28,570 talking here all weekend and he's 454 00:19:33,030 --> 00:19:30,970 somebody who certainly can speak to that 455 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:33,040 because he served in an official 456 00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:35,650 capacity in that role with their UFO 457 00:19:39,810 --> 00:19:38,110 program and he's come out and said look 458 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:39,820 I was an official policy we had cause 459 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:41,770 it's spin and dirty tricks you know 460 00:19:46,350 --> 00:19:43,570 that's what they did they sought out to 461 00:19:49,620 --> 00:19:46,360 make fun of people who reported UFOs 462 00:19:52,170 --> 00:19:49,630 yeah I think it's important to to to 463 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:52,180 sort of realize that when the government 464 00:19:58,170 --> 00:19:55,810 hired an astronomer to debunk UFOs he 465 00:20:00,420 --> 00:19:58,180 couldn't do it and he actually flipped 466 00:20:03,260 --> 00:20:00,430 around it became a believer so right 467 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:03,270 even the government hired people to say 468 00:20:07,490 --> 00:20:04,890 you're not seeing this you're not seeing 469 00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:07,500 this and for like the leading astronomer 470 00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:09,360 to come out and say you are seeing that 471 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:12,000 and I can't explain it it's it's very 472 00:20:18,980 --> 00:20:14,490 telling in my opinion so yeah a lot of 473 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:18,990 the stems from the 40s and 50s and a 474 00:20:22,790 --> 00:20:21,090 lots happened since then yeah and we're 475 00:20:28,250 --> 00:20:22,800 seeing a lot happen now at a very 476 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:28,260 accelerated pace so I just love to get 477 00:20:32,090 --> 00:20:29,970 your guys as thoughts about whether or 478 00:20:33,530 --> 00:20:32,100 not you you personally feel based on 479 00:20:35,930 --> 00:20:33,540 what you're seeing because we're very 480 00:20:38,180 --> 00:20:35,940 wrapped up in this in this field but 481 00:20:41,180 --> 00:20:38,190 also watching what's unfolding in the 482 00:20:42,740 --> 00:20:41,190 general public with this topic so Shane 483 00:20:46,340 --> 00:20:42,750 I guess I'll start with you do you feel 484 00:20:47,390 --> 00:20:46,350 that the stigma surrounding UFOs has 485 00:20:50,780 --> 00:20:47,400 changed at all 486 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:50,790 I think it has III got involved more 487 00:20:55,070 --> 00:20:53,130 seriously about 10 years ago and like I 488 00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:55,080 said I was scared to death to let anyone 489 00:21:00,320 --> 00:20:58,170 even know but in the last few years I 490 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:00,330 think gone with with what's happened 491 00:21:06,050 --> 00:21:03,450 with T TSA in particular on sort of 492 00:21:08,060 --> 00:21:06,060 mainstreaming this and seeing it on 493 00:21:12,290 --> 00:21:08,070 television which is how you reach the 494 00:21:14,510 --> 00:21:12,300 most people in in today's world seeing 495 00:21:18,530 --> 00:21:14,520 that wall getting broke down a little 496 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:18,540 bit has helped eased it so you know now 497 00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:21,210 you know I'm more comfortable you know 498 00:21:26,270 --> 00:21:23,520 talking about it to people at work or 499 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:26,280 you know family or whatever now I'm kind 500 00:21:31,010 --> 00:21:28,050 of known as though you know the UFO guy 501 00:21:33,050 --> 00:21:31,020 but you know to like my granddaughter's 502 00:21:34,490 --> 00:21:33,060 and stuff I'm a year old I mean they're 503 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:34,500 they just think it's a coolest thing 504 00:21:40,250 --> 00:21:37,250 ever so you know it is changing but 505 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:40,260 again just like the example you play 506 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:42,810 that gentleman the the professor is 507 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:45,330 there still a lot of people who would 508 00:21:50,990 --> 00:21:47,610 not be comfortable with it and you have 509 00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:51,000 to respect that and even as an 510 00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:53,370 investigator with MUFON one of the first 511 00:21:58,520 --> 00:21:56,370 boxes you check when you submit a report 512 00:22:01,310 --> 00:21:58,530 to move on is do you want to remain 513 00:22:03,980 --> 00:22:01,320 anonymous or not yeah and that's 514 00:22:06,890 --> 00:22:03,990 something we strictly adhere to we will 515 00:22:07,660 --> 00:22:06,900 never reveal anyone's name or identity 516 00:22:09,910 --> 00:22:07,670 in any way 517 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:09,920 and and if even if they change their 518 00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:11,450 mind they have to actually fill out a 519 00:22:16,090 --> 00:22:14,000 form and sign it that says it's okay to 520 00:22:17,860 --> 00:22:16,100 do that so I mean it just shows you it's 521 00:22:21,970 --> 00:22:17,870 intact it's there but I do feel like 522 00:22:23,770 --> 00:22:21,980 it's easing up a little so I think you 523 00:22:25,210 --> 00:22:23,780 mentioned the TV shows you know we're 524 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:25,220 seeing a lot of that right now and we're 525 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:27,770 also seeing media outlets all around the 526 00:22:32,290 --> 00:22:29,570 world writing about UFOs pretty much 527 00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:32,300 every day and you know I think a lot of 528 00:22:36,670 --> 00:22:34,640 it comes down to just public education 529 00:22:37,930 --> 00:22:36,680 and I think that's that's what we're 530 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:37,940 seeing now we're getting a lot of that 531 00:22:42,130 --> 00:22:39,770 and it's just really getting the general 532 00:22:43,780 --> 00:22:42,140 public to understand that UFOs aren't 533 00:22:45,850 --> 00:22:43,790 just something from sci-fi or something 534 00:22:48,190 --> 00:22:45,860 that only crazy people in a trailer park 535 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:48,200 see right because that is the picture 536 00:22:52,540 --> 00:22:50,810 that has been painted but as we all know 537 00:22:54,430 --> 00:22:52,550 and I can't say it enough but we know 538 00:22:56,620 --> 00:22:54,440 that people from all walks of life 539 00:22:58,480 --> 00:22:56,630 all around the world see UFOs every day 540 00:23:00,760 --> 00:22:58,490 and the general public doesn't realize 541 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:00,770 that right just needs to be advertised 542 00:23:05,980 --> 00:23:03,410 and people get educated yeah I mean look 543 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:05,990 at like this right here yeah there's 544 00:23:09,820 --> 00:23:07,490 people from all over the country 545 00:23:12,460 --> 00:23:09,830 probably other countries too here at 546 00:23:16,060 --> 00:23:12,470 alien Con and that just shows like 547 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:16,070 there's not only there's not only like a 548 00:23:19,690 --> 00:23:18,170 hunger for entertainment about this sort 549 00:23:22,690 --> 00:23:19,700 of stuff there's a hunger for knowledge 550 00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:22,700 about it too so it's so cool to see 551 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:25,130 events like this where they're inviting 552 00:23:30,220 --> 00:23:28,490 UFO researchers also to come and tell 553 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:30,230 our stories about the work we've been 554 00:23:35,980 --> 00:23:33,170 doing for so long so it for me it's 555 00:23:37,900 --> 00:23:35,990 validation and vindication that what 556 00:23:40,060 --> 00:23:37,910 we're doing and the pursuit that a lot 557 00:23:41,350 --> 00:23:40,070 of people here probably are doing is to 558 00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:41,360 find the truth about something that 559 00:23:47,650 --> 00:23:43,910 either happened to us or of a friend or 560 00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:47,660 someone you know and legitimize it yeah 561 00:23:52,270 --> 00:23:50,000 and we like mentioning this you know a 562 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:52,280 big reason we come to events like this 563 00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:55,970 is because the vibe is so cool right and 564 00:23:59,590 --> 00:23:57,200 you see so many people coming to their 565 00:24:01,000 --> 00:23:59,600 first event like this where they feel 566 00:24:02,470 --> 00:24:01,010 like they're in a safe space because 567 00:24:04,660 --> 00:24:02,480 they're around like-minded people they 568 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:04,670 can openly talk about this this subject 569 00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:06,050 that they can't talk about in their 570 00:24:09,670 --> 00:24:07,760 their personal lives or they don't feel 571 00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:09,680 comfortable talking about it to anybody 572 00:24:14,290 --> 00:24:11,120 and this is the first time they've ever 573 00:24:15,580 --> 00:24:14,300 mentioned not only experiences that if 574 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:15,590 they've had experiences but even an 575 00:24:20,499 --> 00:24:18,410 interest in the topic right so I think 576 00:24:22,899 --> 00:24:20,509 there's a tremendous value in 577 00:24:24,430 --> 00:24:22,909 like this for people to come and then 578 00:24:25,839 --> 00:24:24,440 once they're here and they start talking 579 00:24:28,389 --> 00:24:25,849 or hearing the discussions happening 580 00:24:29,889 --> 00:24:28,399 around them they're able to open up more 581 00:24:31,810 --> 00:24:29,899 and they feel more comfortable talking 582 00:24:33,999 --> 00:24:31,820 about it because they realize it's not 583 00:24:35,499 --> 00:24:34,009 such a stigmatized topic anymore like 584 00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:35,509 everybody has an interest in these 585 00:24:39,699 --> 00:24:37,849 subjects right and I mean you look at 586 00:24:42,489 --> 00:24:39,709 something like the experiencer session 587 00:24:43,779 --> 00:24:42,499 yesterday here at alien cotton we didn't 588 00:24:45,969 --> 00:24:43,789 know what to expect we did this in 589 00:24:48,310 --> 00:24:45,979 Baltimore as well we thought maybe 2-3 590 00:24:50,649 --> 00:24:48,320 people would show up and we'd really 591 00:24:52,629 --> 00:24:50,659 have to stretch for time and then by the 592 00:24:55,029 --> 00:24:52,639 end of it the room was like people were 593 00:24:56,619 --> 00:24:55,039 spilling out of it and yesterday was the 594 00:24:58,689 --> 00:24:56,629 same thing like we were in this same 595 00:25:01,689 --> 00:24:58,699 room and every seat was filled right so 596 00:25:03,609 --> 00:25:01,699 clearly people want to tell their 597 00:25:05,319 --> 00:25:03,619 stories they have stories to tell and 598 00:25:07,689 --> 00:25:05,329 they know that there are people willing 599 00:25:11,949 --> 00:25:07,699 to listen so I think things are changing 600 00:25:13,989 --> 00:25:11,959 for sure you see so many television 601 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:13,999 shows coming out and podcasts and stuff 602 00:25:16,659 --> 00:25:14,690 like that 603 00:25:18,999 --> 00:25:16,669 and like you said around the world too 604 00:25:20,619 --> 00:25:19,009 it's not just in the United States the 605 00:25:22,930 --> 00:25:20,629 topic is just becoming more and more 606 00:25:27,099 --> 00:25:22,940 mainstream which is something we strive 607 00:25:30,159 --> 00:25:27,109 for for so long so I don't know but I 608 00:25:31,629 --> 00:25:30,169 have a bit of shame for doing this 609 00:25:33,189 --> 00:25:31,639 myself because I'm not helping but I 610 00:25:34,959 --> 00:25:33,199 feel like I kind of have to defend what 611 00:25:38,889 --> 00:25:34,969 I do sometimes when I tell people what 612 00:25:41,079 --> 00:25:38,899 my profession is I I want to get to that 613 00:25:43,539 --> 00:25:41,089 point where I don't feel like I need to 614 00:25:47,129 --> 00:25:43,549 give people an explanation when I tell 615 00:25:50,619 --> 00:25:47,139 them what I do it's like oh I'm this 616 00:25:52,389 --> 00:25:50,629 because you know and rifle on how you 617 00:25:55,569 --> 00:25:52,399 know I actually take the subject very 618 00:25:58,479 --> 00:25:55,579 seriously I'm not crazy how what what 619 00:26:02,979 --> 00:25:58,489 have you and I think I'd like to say 620 00:26:05,709 --> 00:26:02,989 like yes it is it is reducing now we're 621 00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:05,719 getting a lot of really good press about 622 00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:07,609 this field and people are taking it 623 00:26:13,239 --> 00:26:09,289 seriously we have so many military and 624 00:26:15,819 --> 00:26:13,249 pilots now coming forward but as 625 00:26:18,039 --> 00:26:15,829 somebody in the UFO field I feel like 626 00:26:20,049 --> 00:26:18,049 I'm being a little bit detrimental in 627 00:26:21,939 --> 00:26:20,059 terms of feeling like I have to defend 628 00:26:23,619 --> 00:26:21,949 myself when I talk about what I do it's 629 00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:23,629 not like being ashamed of sharing my 630 00:26:31,719 --> 00:26:27,049 story it's like okay this is gonna sound 631 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:31,729 crazy but I work in the UFO field yeah 632 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:33,050 you know and 633 00:26:38,799 --> 00:26:35,210 I think once we can get past that it'll 634 00:26:41,919 --> 00:26:38,809 also help D stigmatize the few as well 635 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:41,929 right I wonder how much of that stigma 636 00:26:46,150 --> 00:26:44,570 is is self-inflicted yeah right because 637 00:26:48,130 --> 00:26:46,160 you have that hesitation and we all 638 00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:48,140 assume that it still exists because 639 00:26:51,460 --> 00:26:49,760 everybody's hesitant they don't want to 640 00:26:53,470 --> 00:26:51,470 share stories or even broach the topic 641 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:53,480 until they hear that you're not gonna 642 00:26:57,010 --> 00:26:55,370 make fun of them exactly there's that 643 00:26:58,870 --> 00:26:57,020 little bit of giggle factor and right 644 00:27:02,080 --> 00:26:58,880 like Ryan said it's like very hard to go 645 00:27:04,210 --> 00:27:02,090 on dates when you're talking about your 646 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:04,220 right Ryan I mean everybody you know has 647 00:27:10,810 --> 00:27:07,250 these these stories and you know you 648 00:27:13,060 --> 00:27:10,820 mentioned the problems you had with with 649 00:27:14,650 --> 00:27:13,070 women because of it but I guess I think 650 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:14,660 all of us are up here are grateful that 651 00:27:19,299 --> 00:27:15,710 happened because you're in a better 652 00:27:21,669 --> 00:27:19,309 place because of it but if any of you 653 00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:21,679 have stories that you would like to 654 00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:22,880 share with us we'd love to hear them 655 00:27:27,690 --> 00:27:25,520 about you know anytime because we've 656 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:27,700 heard so many stories of people who have 657 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:32,570 lost you know relationships who have 658 00:27:37,870 --> 00:27:35,090 lost jobs you know their lives have been 659 00:27:40,570 --> 00:27:37,880 affected because they've spoken out 660 00:27:43,180 --> 00:27:40,580 about UFO experiences or beliefs on UFOs 661 00:27:44,890 --> 00:27:43,190 or anything like that so if any of you 662 00:27:46,270 --> 00:27:44,900 have stories in the audience that would 663 00:27:50,530 --> 00:27:46,280 like to share those with us we'd love to 664 00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:50,540 hear those but how do you see in the 665 00:27:55,630 --> 00:27:54,110 next year I guess year with everything 666 00:27:59,260 --> 00:27:55,640 that's happening right now at a rapid 667 00:28:01,060 --> 00:27:59,270 pace with all of the media blitz that's 668 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:01,070 going on about this topic with the 669 00:28:07,690 --> 00:28:04,130 Navy's extreme interest in it right now 670 00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:07,700 all the TV shows what do you think out 671 00:28:12,190 --> 00:28:08,809 of all of these things are going to have 672 00:28:14,740 --> 00:28:12,200 the most impact in really showing to the 673 00:28:18,850 --> 00:28:14,750 public that this is now a mainstream 674 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:18,860 topic I'll start with that one I've 675 00:28:24,730 --> 00:28:21,890 spoken to at least three college 676 00:28:26,919 --> 00:28:24,740 professors I think last year or so right 677 00:28:29,980 --> 00:28:26,929 who are now teaching courses in college 678 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:29,990 about UFOs in all different capacities 679 00:28:34,390 --> 00:28:31,850 whether it's from a scientific approach 680 00:28:37,759 --> 00:28:34,400 an academic approach a historical 681 00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:37,769 approach or even a sociological cultural 682 00:28:44,060 --> 00:28:42,720 I see things changing very big in terms 683 00:28:46,909 --> 00:28:44,070 of like a cultural shift 684 00:28:49,490 --> 00:28:46,919 I think there's absolutely no question 685 00:28:51,259 --> 00:28:49,500 anymore that UFOs exist that seem to be 686 00:28:52,490 --> 00:28:51,269 the question for so long right and we 687 00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:52,500 get that question all the time 688 00:28:57,350 --> 00:28:54,809 RT UFO is real and that's not even a 689 00:28:59,480 --> 00:28:57,360 question yes obviously the real they're 690 00:29:02,509 --> 00:28:59,490 clearly just they're unidentified 691 00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:02,519 objects it's no longer a question if 692 00:29:07,460 --> 00:29:05,039 it's now it's the what who and the why 693 00:29:09,740 --> 00:29:07,470 and I think that's the next step is 694 00:29:13,159 --> 00:29:09,750 really trying to hone in on what these 695 00:29:16,820 --> 00:29:13,169 phenomena represent and whether they're 696 00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:16,830 aliens or something else we're not in a 697 00:29:21,019 --> 00:29:19,049 position to say yeah but at the end of 698 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:21,029 the day we're now asking new questions I 699 00:29:25,310 --> 00:29:24,570 think that's important yeah I like what 700 00:29:27,769 --> 00:29:25,320 you're talking about 701 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:27,779 in the education front in over the last 702 00:29:32,450 --> 00:29:29,850 10 years we've also seen this down to 703 00:29:34,759 --> 00:29:32,460 the elementary level and I love being 704 00:29:37,820 --> 00:29:34,769 this there's always some article that's 705 00:29:40,009 --> 00:29:37,830 like oh this this science class in fifth 706 00:29:42,049 --> 00:29:40,019 grade they had a crashed UFO and the 707 00:29:44,690 --> 00:29:42,059 kids had to go out onto the field and 708 00:29:47,450 --> 00:29:44,700 investigate the crash and use the 709 00:29:49,450 --> 00:29:47,460 scientific method to detail and 710 00:29:52,009 --> 00:29:49,460 interview witnesses and I think that's 711 00:29:54,289 --> 00:29:52,019 fantastic I wish that I had that sort of 712 00:29:56,090 --> 00:29:54,299 program when I was in school and or in 713 00:29:58,940 --> 00:29:56,100 college that's awesome 714 00:30:00,619 --> 00:29:58,950 yeah there there is some sort of online 715 00:30:03,619 --> 00:30:00,629 thing where you can get I think you did 716 00:30:07,909 --> 00:30:03,629 it think of the ufologists degree it was 717 00:30:11,810 --> 00:30:07,919 kind of a joke or was it Oh anyway there 718 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:11,820 is no degree so don't do that but I 719 00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:14,490 think understanding again like getting 720 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:18,000 down to in graining this from a young 721 00:30:21,740 --> 00:30:20,370 age that it's not something to laugh 722 00:30:24,769 --> 00:30:21,750 about and it's something that's totally 723 00:30:27,499 --> 00:30:24,779 acceptable we all see occasionally 724 00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:27,509 strange things we can't explain that's a 725 00:30:32,570 --> 00:30:30,720 great way to I think changed the course 726 00:30:35,149 --> 00:30:32,580 and change the conversation and change 727 00:30:39,980 --> 00:30:35,159 the way we're gonna advance in the 728 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:39,990 future in the next year I would say for 729 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:42,570 me even though I I don't always trust 730 00:30:47,119 --> 00:30:45,090 them I would say that some of these more 731 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:47,129 mainstream media and news outlets 732 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:48,930 posting serious articles 733 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:51,810 about the UFO subject outside of the TV 734 00:30:58,250 --> 00:30:55,050 programming that seems to draw a lot of 735 00:30:59,780 --> 00:30:58,260 good attention and so I think that's one 736 00:31:02,890 --> 00:30:59,790 of the primary sources that it's gonna 737 00:31:07,010 --> 00:31:02,900 make the most change over the next year 738 00:31:08,990 --> 00:31:07,020 yeah the public education is is really 739 00:31:11,630 --> 00:31:09,000 key I think because there's still just a 740 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:11,640 lot of misperception that continues to 741 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:13,170 get pushed right I mean first we have to 742 00:31:16,970 --> 00:31:15,090 get over the hurdle of how many people 743 00:31:19,250 --> 00:31:16,980 understand that UFOs are quite common 744 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:19,260 I've seen every single day all over the 745 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:22,410 world but also who's seeing them and 746 00:31:26,450 --> 00:31:24,930 who's taking the subject seriously and 747 00:31:28,670 --> 00:31:26,460 all of a sudden it's news that the 748 00:31:29,930 --> 00:31:28,680 Navy's taking UFOs seriously the 749 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:29,940 military and the government have always 750 00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:32,130 taken UFOs seriously they've not always 751 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:33,510 shared that information with us but 752 00:31:37,550 --> 00:31:34,770 they've always taken the subject 753 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:37,560 seriously the scientific community 754 00:31:42,020 --> 00:31:40,410 that's another misperception that the 755 00:31:43,700 --> 00:31:42,030 scientific community wants nothing to do 756 00:31:46,010 --> 00:31:43,710 with UFOs they think it's ridiculous and 757 00:31:49,490 --> 00:31:46,020 that is not true yes that is the 758 00:31:51,260 --> 00:31:49,500 established mainstream position that not 759 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:51,270 really anything interesting to see here 760 00:31:57,380 --> 00:31:54,330 but there are countless mainstream 761 00:31:59,810 --> 00:31:57,390 scientists who actively research this 762 00:32:02,090 --> 00:31:59,820 subject yeah I think too when you think 763 00:32:03,620 --> 00:32:02,100 about it what we're seeing happening now 764 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:03,630 people are calling kind of a 765 00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:06,090 confirmation or disclosure but what it 766 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:08,640 is is is you know when you educate 767 00:32:13,070 --> 00:32:10,890 people you start with the more elemental 768 00:32:15,380 --> 00:32:13,080 and basics then you add more information 769 00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:15,390 once they've been able to assimilate 770 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:17,310 that and you keep keep adding more so 771 00:32:22,010 --> 00:32:19,650 what we're seeing now is look we're 772 00:32:25,250 --> 00:32:22,020 we're now talking about you know the 773 00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:25,260 what when and where which is something 774 00:32:31,610 --> 00:32:27,120 that you can have data for you know 775 00:32:34,390 --> 00:32:31,620 these Navy radar systems and and other 776 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:34,400 sensors they can answer those questions 777 00:32:40,010 --> 00:32:36,690 establishing the reality that these 778 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:40,020 objects exist right but that's that's a 779 00:32:44,930 --> 00:32:42,570 big deal to even have the general public 780 00:32:47,390 --> 00:32:44,940 you know accept that that you know these 781 00:32:48,770 --> 00:32:47,400 things are real and they're not ours so 782 00:32:50,750 --> 00:32:48,780 it'll take a while we'll live in that 783 00:32:53,150 --> 00:32:50,760 world at that level and then we'll go to 784 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:53,160 the next grade you know and then pretty 785 00:32:57,900 --> 00:32:54,690 soon what would be up to the point where 786 00:32:59,400 --> 00:32:57,910 we'll be asking now who and why 787 00:33:00,990 --> 00:32:59,410 but it will take time you just can't 788 00:33:03,660 --> 00:33:01,000 come out of a gate and do that so 789 00:33:06,090 --> 00:33:03,670 bringing that you know the public's 790 00:33:07,980 --> 00:33:06,100 attention and and knowledge of the 791 00:33:09,900 --> 00:33:07,990 subject in a progressive and controlled 792 00:33:11,580 --> 00:33:09,910 way it's really the way I think that 793 00:33:13,310 --> 00:33:11,590 it's going to happen and go about it and 794 00:33:18,270 --> 00:33:13,320 it's probably the correct way to do it 795 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:18,280 Shane I know you deal with people on an 796 00:33:22,860 --> 00:33:20,530 individual level as an investigator and 797 00:33:24,570 --> 00:33:22,870 these are people you know just like Ryan 798 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:24,580 did with his book and he does every 799 00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:26,890 single day really working with people 800 00:33:31,290 --> 00:33:28,480 for his podcast Ryan focuses on 801 00:33:33,030 --> 00:33:31,300 experiences really and the people and 802 00:33:34,590 --> 00:33:33,040 hearing the stories you as an 803 00:33:37,050 --> 00:33:34,600 investigator go out and talk to these 804 00:33:38,420 --> 00:33:37,060 people you know shortly after they've 805 00:33:43,650 --> 00:33:38,430 had something and you're investigating 806 00:33:45,870 --> 00:33:43,660 these cases and how difficult is it 807 00:33:47,490 --> 00:33:45,880 because I know I've talked with you 808 00:33:49,290 --> 00:33:47,500 about this about just different 809 00:33:53,130 --> 00:33:49,300 personalities and how people react to 810 00:33:54,660 --> 00:33:53,140 UFOs but how hard do you have to work to 811 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:54,670 really pull information out of people 812 00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:56,530 because I know it's a huge step for 813 00:34:01,080 --> 00:33:58,210 people to first take that step to even 814 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:01,090 report a UFO experience to move on a UFO 815 00:34:05,610 --> 00:34:03,490 organization yeah no that's a good point 816 00:34:09,139 --> 00:34:05,620 and good question you know you get a 817 00:34:11,940 --> 00:34:09,149 very wide array of individuals 818 00:34:13,950 --> 00:34:11,950 personality types people from OC's all 819 00:34:17,340 --> 00:34:13,960 walks of life different ages different 820 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:17,350 genders I mean you can't control what 821 00:34:21,810 --> 00:34:19,570 comes in to move on so you have to be 822 00:34:23,490 --> 00:34:21,820 prepared to handle anything and really 823 00:34:26,010 --> 00:34:23,500 you do get a wide array of things but 824 00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:26,020 you know that I think the common thread 825 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:29,679 there is that if a person has come to 826 00:34:33,389 --> 00:34:31,090 the point that they're willing to make 827 00:34:35,909 --> 00:34:33,399 that report it's really a form of 828 00:34:38,070 --> 00:34:35,919 communication to you they they want to 829 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:38,080 tell that story to someone now some 830 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:40,450 people are more concerned about hey can 831 00:34:44,879 --> 00:34:42,490 you tell me what I saw and other people 832 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:44,889 are like I don't need to know what I saw 833 00:34:49,470 --> 00:34:47,530 I've got this off my chest so sometimes 834 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:49,480 when you conduct an interview you know 835 00:34:54,780 --> 00:34:52,330 it's somebody just you know you can just 836 00:34:57,270 --> 00:34:54,790 tell they're just aching to tell you 837 00:34:59,370 --> 00:34:57,280 about it and what you know and what just 838 00:35:01,170 --> 00:34:59,380 want to unload and other people are just 839 00:35:03,420 --> 00:35:01,180 super factual well you know I just saw 840 00:35:06,510 --> 00:35:03,430 this this this and that and that's it so 841 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:06,520 you you know it's an experience is 842 00:35:09,810 --> 00:35:08,410 different for every individual yeah and 843 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:09,820 you have to just be 844 00:35:14,010 --> 00:35:11,650 sensitive that you can't be judgmental 845 00:35:16,650 --> 00:35:14,020 you know you're gonna make up make them 846 00:35:18,420 --> 00:35:16,660 comfortable and talking to you so that's 847 00:35:20,970 --> 00:35:18,430 one of the big parts of a of an 848 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:20,980 investigation and I'll say the most 849 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:23,770 important piece of data you can have is 850 00:35:28,830 --> 00:35:26,050 the eyewitness testimony yeah you know 851 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:28,840 photos videos I mean have an awesome 852 00:35:34,410 --> 00:35:31,570 video but with no context it means 853 00:35:37,710 --> 00:35:34,420 nothing you've got to have that so yeah 854 00:35:41,010 --> 00:35:37,720 and I always say this UFOs is really 855 00:35:42,660 --> 00:35:41,020 about people and and and I strongly 856 00:35:44,730 --> 00:35:42,670 believe that and then so when you 857 00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:44,740 interact with people on this level you 858 00:35:49,860 --> 00:35:47,200 really get a sense that you know this is 859 00:35:52,590 --> 00:35:49,870 a profound and meaningful thing and so 860 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:52,600 you got to handle it correctly they 861 00:35:58,380 --> 00:35:55,330 talked about a lot about that on Friday 862 00:36:00,480 --> 00:35:58,390 or Saturday was the empathy factor and 863 00:36:03,090 --> 00:36:00,490 yeah you're right it's important to have 864 00:36:04,230 --> 00:36:03,100 that because you do not know the 865 00:36:06,030 --> 00:36:04,240 background are the people that are 866 00:36:08,190 --> 00:36:06,040 reporting these things and some people 867 00:36:11,220 --> 00:36:08,200 are very traumatized some people are 868 00:36:14,340 --> 00:36:11,230 just blase about it so you have to have 869 00:36:16,410 --> 00:36:14,350 that level of respectful objective 870 00:36:19,370 --> 00:36:16,420 reporting always when going into this 871 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:19,380 and I think that again is important with 872 00:36:23,970 --> 00:36:22,810 how you deal with things in how people 873 00:36:26,010 --> 00:36:23,980 are going to feel more comfortable 874 00:36:29,850 --> 00:36:26,020 coming forward and we're gonna reduce 875 00:36:32,940 --> 00:36:29,860 this this factor that people can't share 876 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:32,950 their stories it's a great point morning 877 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:34,690 but going back to you know we're talking 878 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:36,610 about either the general public and and 879 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:39,130 you know hoping to get people to open up 880 00:36:42,380 --> 00:36:40,450 and be able to talk about this subject 881 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:42,390 more but going back to the sort of 882 00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:44,130 self-imposed 883 00:36:47,340 --> 00:36:46,630 element of all of this for you 884 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:47,350 personally 885 00:36:53,310 --> 00:36:51,130 how has the topic of UFOs changed for 886 00:36:54,330 --> 00:36:53,320 you in terms of that that stigma or 887 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:54,340 holding back 888 00:36:58,050 --> 00:36:56,050 do you like own it now when you just 889 00:36:59,610 --> 00:36:58,060 talk about UFOs in public or you know 890 00:37:02,310 --> 00:36:59,620 with friends or whatever or is there 891 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:02,320 still that hesitation um I think 892 00:37:07,140 --> 00:37:04,450 occasionally there is a little bit the 893 00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:07,150 hesitation I think it's when I depends 894 00:37:11,030 --> 00:37:09,760 on who I'm talking to and I wish that 895 00:37:13,530 --> 00:37:11,040 wasn't the case I wish I would just 896 00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:13,540 openly talk about and I do trust me I 897 00:37:17,140 --> 00:37:15,520 talk about UFOs all the time to whoever 898 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:17,150 will listen so 899 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:21,290 I like my work now follows everything I 900 00:37:29,140 --> 00:37:23,330 do and and they're all into it and 901 00:37:31,150 --> 00:37:29,150 excited and I think yes it has evolved I 902 00:37:33,370 --> 00:37:31,160 feel a little less the reticule but I 903 00:37:37,870 --> 00:37:33,380 also feel like I have to defend the 904 00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:37,880 topic a lot to people so when that comes 905 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:39,920 up you know if I do meet with somebody 906 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:42,410 that is that object of this is 907 00:37:47,530 --> 00:37:43,970 ridiculous 908 00:37:49,990 --> 00:37:47,540 I like no listen and I start listing off 909 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:50,000 all these really credible things about 910 00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:52,970 the study of UFOs and how they exist in 911 00:37:56,890 --> 00:37:54,320 how the military is involved how the 912 00:37:59,440 --> 00:37:56,900 government's involved and it becomes 913 00:38:03,070 --> 00:37:59,450 this old tirade of me trying to defend 914 00:38:04,630 --> 00:38:03,080 the subject and so I don't know if that 915 00:38:07,630 --> 00:38:04,640 answers the question so I guess a little 916 00:38:09,430 --> 00:38:07,640 bit it's changed I it was so long ago I 917 00:38:11,500 --> 00:38:09,440 started I don't remember how I felt 918 00:38:13,300 --> 00:38:11,510 about it at that time Shane you 919 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:13,310 mentioned you're you're known as the UFO 920 00:38:16,300 --> 00:38:15,170 guy at work now so I guess it's a little 921 00:38:18,910 --> 00:38:16,310 different for you now than when you 922 00:38:21,580 --> 00:38:18,920 started yeah I think part of it for me 923 00:38:23,230 --> 00:38:21,590 is I'm almost 60 or so and you get a 924 00:38:24,670 --> 00:38:23,240 point where your life where you just say 925 00:38:26,950 --> 00:38:24,680 you know I don't give it you know what 926 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:26,960 what anybody thinks about me or what I'm 927 00:38:31,390 --> 00:38:29,090 doing you know I'm gonna do what I want 928 00:38:33,460 --> 00:38:31,400 to do it's my life you know so I reached 929 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:33,470 that point I think that that helped me 930 00:38:39,700 --> 00:38:36,290 get over it but I think in general just 931 00:38:41,980 --> 00:38:39,710 there truly is a reduction in that 932 00:38:44,710 --> 00:38:41,990 ridicule factor and people are quite 933 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:44,720 curious and I'll even give props to 934 00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:47,210 ancient aliens you know sure that show 935 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:49,250 has reached millions upon millions of 936 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:52,010 people and people if if they're not in 937 00:38:55,870 --> 00:38:54,050 agreement with it at least they're you 938 00:38:58,150 --> 00:38:55,880 know aware of it and and more 939 00:38:59,860 --> 00:38:58,160 comfortable with the topic which before 940 00:39:01,210 --> 00:38:59,870 would have just been taboo I mean look 941 00:39:02,980 --> 00:39:01,220 what happened to Daniken when he 942 00:39:05,500 --> 00:39:02,990 released that book in the 70s you know 943 00:39:09,100 --> 00:39:05,510 people lost their minds it was it was 944 00:39:11,140 --> 00:39:09,110 terrible so I think that kind of 945 00:39:13,540 --> 00:39:11,150 exposure can has has really made an 946 00:39:15,100 --> 00:39:13,550 impact and Ryan I know you're almost 60 947 00:39:16,750 --> 00:39:15,110 as well have you reached the same point 948 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:16,760 Jane well 949 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:19,850 no you know I there's two things for me 950 00:39:25,990 --> 00:39:23,450 one I agree with Maureen we spent so 951 00:39:28,300 --> 00:39:26,000 much time in our youthful aaja coker 952 00:39:31,630 --> 00:39:28,310 ears defending the topic and trying to 953 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:31,640 persuade people to either be interested 954 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:34,010 or believe it and there came a point for 955 00:39:38,410 --> 00:39:37,010 me when I just like you guys I said I 956 00:39:40,540 --> 00:39:38,420 don't care what other people think 957 00:39:42,700 --> 00:39:40,550 anymore you can't force someone to be 958 00:39:44,740 --> 00:39:42,710 interested in the UFO topic even if they 959 00:39:47,380 --> 00:39:44,750 had a sighting I had a guy who had a 960 00:39:49,060 --> 00:39:47,390 close encounter he went to a bar and had 961 00:39:51,580 --> 00:39:49,070 two beers and then never talked about it 962 00:39:53,650 --> 00:39:51,590 again and he didn't he told me it 963 00:39:55,150 --> 00:39:53,660 changed his life but he said I also 964 00:39:57,100 --> 00:39:55,160 don't ever want to talk about it again 965 00:39:59,050 --> 00:39:57,110 right so that was interesting for me 966 00:40:02,290 --> 00:39:59,060 there was a moment this past Father's 967 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:02,300 Day when my father sent me a photo of 968 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:04,370 himself in a t-shirt and it said I'm a 969 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:08,690 proud UFO dad I didn't know it sounds 970 00:40:14,290 --> 00:40:11,770 corny but I almost like started crying 971 00:40:16,390 --> 00:40:14,300 every son would like once that 972 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:16,400 reinforcement from their own parent 973 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:18,890 especially in the field of career they 974 00:40:23,350 --> 00:40:21,050 choose so for me that was a really cool 975 00:40:25,930 --> 00:40:23,360 moment and it really showed me like yeah 976 00:40:28,660 --> 00:40:25,940 it's okay to talk about these things but 977 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:28,670 at the same time we can to force people 978 00:40:35,710 --> 00:40:32,570 to to believe in it or or to even be 979 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:35,720 interested in it right we can only give 980 00:40:40,450 --> 00:40:37,970 the facts as they are tell the stories 981 00:40:42,610 --> 00:40:40,460 and hope they'll follow us on on the 982 00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:42,620 journey I think it's worth it yeah well 983 00:40:46,990 --> 00:40:44,960 said well citizens we wrap up this 984 00:40:48,460 --> 00:40:47,000 episode I invite you to come join us in 985 00:40:50,740 --> 00:40:48,470 the rogue planet Facebook group at 986 00:40:52,690 --> 00:40:50,750 facebook.com slash groups slash rogue 987 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:52,700 planet we'd love to hear your thoughts 988 00:40:56,830 --> 00:40:54,770 on the stigma surrounding the UFO topic 989 00:40:58,900 --> 00:40:56,840 or anything else ufo-related that's on 990 00:41:00,880 --> 00:40:58,910 your mind you can find more episodes of 991 00:41:03,340 --> 00:41:00,890 unknown on Apple podcasts stitcher 992 00:41:05,170 --> 00:41:03,350 Google Play I Heart Radio and YouTube 993 00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:05,180 you can always find this show at rogue 994 00:41:09,730 --> 00:41:07,280 planet TV because unknown is a rogue 995 00:41:12,790 --> 00:41:09,740 planet production ro Planet TV is your 996 00:41:14,740 --> 00:41:12,800 home for all the strange big thanks to 997 00:41:16,180 --> 00:41:14,750 our talented friend and fellow rogue 998 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:16,190 planet Eire caleb hanks for the show's 999 00:41:19,510 --> 00:41:18,410 intro and outro music check out all his 1000 00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:19,520 work at duck Cochran 1001 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:21,440 coal's calm thanks again for hanging out 1002 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:22,970 with us today I'm Jason McClellan 1003 00:41:27,820 --> 00:41:25,490 I'm Ryan Sprague I'm Maureen Elsberry 1004 00:41:29,710 --> 00:41:27,830 and I'm Shane her do us a favour friends 1005 00:41:31,540 --> 00:41:29,720 always treat the UFO subject with the 1006 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:31,550 cautious and responsible skepticism it 1007 00:41:35,350 --> 00:41:33,530 deserves question everything had the 1008 00:41:37,510 --> 00:41:35,360 courage to form your own opinions keep 1009 00:41:39,010 --> 00:41:37,520 truth as the focus of your quest even if 1010 00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:39,020 the truth conflicts with your opinions 1011 00:41:57,540 --> 00:41:41,730 and of course stay strange